I had such a hard time with the Clerk's Tale. I think I have
trouble disconnecting my current feminist views and analyzing things through
the perspective of the time. I'm hoping that during class today I will be able
to appreciate the story more than I did while reading.
I just cannot imagine myself being okay
after finding out that everything that had happened was a test to see how loyal
I was. I imagine myself being so incredibly angry and hurt.
However, I'm a woman in the 21st century
and I'm socialized to think differently than women in Chaucer's time. I realize
that the strength that women had during this time was completely different than
what I value as my strengths.
I’m not sure if I’m
making much sense with this. I just had a lot of trouble reading this story
because I couldn’t disconnect my personal values from my reading. Did anyone
have a different experience or did anyone have the same experience as I did? I
hope I’m not the only one!
I have the same problem. I struggle trying to separate my 21st century thinking while reading Medieval literature. This class is really beginning to bring the feminist out of me. I understand why things may have been acceptable during the time but I just can't accept them.
ReplyDeleteDid your experience with the Clerk's tale alter as a result of class discussion, Laura? I like to imagine what the Wife of Bath would have done if she had married Walter. How long before she decked him?
ReplyDeleteI am right there with you guys (Laura and Yasmine), even though I have been married 31 years. I married my friend. Griselde and Constance did not -- and did not have that choice. We should bristle at this-- it would horrifying if we didn't.
I hope class helped some. It might also help to think that we are not supposed to take Griselda literally. The Clerk says something to that effect in lines 1142-1148. She is not supposed to be a hand book on right behavior but a pointed example of it. there are other places where things are hard to believe, Palamon and Arcite fight ankle deep in their own blood, Custaunce is carried through the strait of Gibraltar twice by wind and wave (very unlikely if you look at a map), and they manage to divide a fart with a cart wheel. I don’t think any of these where supposed to be taken as fact, but they make a point. Another part of the problem is like you said our twentieth century views of things. I would attribute it to more than feminism but also to the individualism of America. Here we think it’s a great thing for someone to stand up for what they want and have complete self governance. Chaucer’s people didn’t. For them it seems faithfully doing your bit was far more important, and just because someone could stand up for their own good does not necessarily mean they should. (I could be wrong, stop me if I am Dr MB)
ReplyDeleteOK, just as with Andrew, I apologize Lara if I'm repeating things said in class. And I apologize for referring to outside sources (this time blame Prof. Sandona).
ReplyDeleteThe first time I read this (probably 1989), my paper would have probably said something like "Chaucer as a proto-feminist is using the horror of this tale to demonstrate the evils of patriarchy carried to the extreme." Now I'm old and to my surprise find myself thinking differently.
Going into this, I didn't remember The Clerk's Tale. All I knew was that it was Prof. MB's favorite tale, and I don't believe she would love a tale that had no redeeming qualities. So I started reading deliberately looking for anything positive about women.
In a world that usually tied women to Eve and misery, Chaucer intensifies the religious connotations and likens Griselda to Christ. (p. 921-22) I also think about this--in 14th century terms I think Griselda represents unconditional love and obedience.
This story made me think of John Webster's DUCHESS OF MALFI. The Duchess had nothing in common with Griselda--the Duchess was a strong advocate for herself, had a strong sexuality, and married who she wanted to. So why do I connect them? In the beginning, the Duchess has power and freedom and lots of movement. She also has 2 horrible, insane brothers who don't like her marriage choice. As the story goes on, the Duchess' movements get restricted to only a room, then a seat. Her brothers try to drive her insane. But if she is powerless physically she remains in control of her soul. They finally kill her, but break themselves in the doing of it.
There is a 21st century power here as well. Griselda is basically in a situation where she is powerless. She can fight or not fight, but she isn't going to win. Anytime people can come in your house and strip you down and change your clothes and hair, you pretty much don't have power. If she were a 21st century abused child, I'd say she fought back the way she could. She didn't give Walter the emotional reactions he was looking for. He pushed and he pushed but she remained herself, she kept control of her soul and gave him no access to it. One wonders how the story would have continued.
Regarding Andrew's comments, I think 14th century people would have looked hard at Walter and Griselda in terms of gentillesse and (I can't remember the word) the idea of sovereigns owing their people service as well.
I really liked your comment, Diane! I'll have to admit that I didn't even consider the Wife of Bath while reading this tale but now that you've mentioned her I cannot stop thinking about how she would have reacted to being placed in this situation! I especially liked your comment about how long we thought it would have taken her to deck him - I'm guessing not too long.
ReplyDeleteI also agree that it would be horrifying if 21st Century women read this and didn't feel quite shocked and upset afterwards. I believe there is a lot to consider when we look at Chaucer's work with a medieval mindset but potentially even more if we think about how his tales relate to our society today. This is one of the reasons I feel like Chaucer is so incredibly interesting - because there are so many possibilities offered by his words that are just begging to be questioned, analyzed and explored.
Andrew - what you said about the individualism of America really got me thinking. I completely agree that we are not supposed to take this tale literally, even though it is incredibly difficult to separate ourselves for our 21st Century mindset while reading. However, I hand't specifically considered the individualism that is so prevalent in our society and the effect that this may have on our understanding of Chaucer's tales. There is defiantly something to this idea, and while I don't have much more to add on the subject just yet, I'm certainly going to keep it in mind while reading for now on. Thanks for pointing this idea out!
ReplyDeleteClass definitely helped to read this story differently. As did everyone's comments! Meg's comment about Griselda being compared to an abused child is really really interesting and puts a completely different perspective on the story for me!
ReplyDeleteWalter's behavior was terrible, and it made it worse how Grisilde continued to show virtue in her trials. I felt that I would have been hurt as well for the test that her husband placed in her, especially when it came to her children. It is difficult to separate our ideals in situations like this from the Chaucer's time, although I can't really see this Walter's character likable then either.
ReplyDeleteI thought that Andrew brought up an interesting idea in his post about Walter, claiming maybe we were suppose to question Walter's behavior, as well as look at her extreme virtue. Maybe we are suppose to take Walter as lesson of not testing people's virtues.